Legislature(1993 - 1994)
02/24/1993 01:30 PM Senate HES
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
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+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
SENATE HEALTH, EDUCATION & SOCIAL SERVICES COMMITTEE
February 24, 1993
1:30 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Senator Steve Rieger, Chairman
Senator Bert Sharp, Vice Chairman
Senator Mike Miller
Senator Johnny Ellis
Senator Jim Duncan
MEMBERS ABSENT
Senator Loren Leman
Senator Judy Salo
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
SENATE BILL NO. 51
"An Act providing for establishment of work camps for
juveniles adjudicated delinquent, and extending to all
cities and to nonprofit corporations authority to maintain
facilities for juveniles."
SENATE BILL NO. 61
"An Act implementing certain recommendations of Alaska 2000
to improve the state's education system; and providing for
an effective date."
PREVIOUS SENATE COMMITTEE ACTION
SB 51 - See HESS minutes dated 2/24/93.
SB 61 - See HESS minutes dated 2/8/93, 2/10/93, and 2/17/93.
WITNESS REGISTER
Sherrie Goll
Alaska Women's Lobby
P.O. Box 22156
Juneau, Alaska 99801
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on SB 51.
Caren Robinson
League of Women Voters
Southeast Alaska Guidance Association Program
P.O. Box 33702
Juneau, Alaska 99801
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on SB 51.
Randall Hines, Youth Correction Specialist
Department of Health and Social Services
P.O. Box 110630
Juneau, Alaska 99801
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on SB 51.
Claudia Douglas
NEA/AK
114 Second Street
Juneau, Alaska 99801
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on SB 61.
Carl Rose, Executive Director
Association of Alaska School Boards
316 West 11th Street
Juneau, Alaska 99801
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on SB 61.
Jerry Covey, Commissioner
Department of Education
801 W. 10th St.
Suite 200
Juneau, Alaska 99801-1984
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on SB 61.
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 93-15, SIDE A
Number 001
CHAIRMAN RIEGER called the Senate Health, Education, and
Social Services Committee (HESS) to order at 1:30 p.m. and
announced SB 51 WORK CAMPS FOR JUVENILE OFFENDERS to be up
for consideration.
SENATOR RANDY PHILLIPS, sponsor, said a work camp is an
alternative for juveniles in trouble, rather than putting
them in McClaughlin. They would have counseling,
educational programs, and work details stressing the work
ethic.
Number 61
SHERRIE GOLL, Alaska Women's Lobby, said last year she
testified basically in opposition to the bill because of its
broadness and vagueness. She didn't know how "boot camps"
would interface with what we currently have for residential
child care. She asked if children would be moved from
residential child care into a labor situation. She asked
where the funding would come from and which facilities would
have to close in order to establish the new program.
CAREN ROBINSON, League of Women Voters, and President,
Southeast Alaska Guidance Association Program (SAGA),
commended the sponsor for looking for alternatives, but she
has concern with a program that sounds like it is military
and work camp oriented.
MS. ROBINSON was concerned with the $9,000 fiscal note. She
had a handout that explained SAGA which has a comprehensive
program for youths that combines the values, goals, and
objectives of academic and outdoor education, skills
training, and work experience. The youths involved in the
program have to be either in foster care, an alcohol
treatment program, a youth facility, have learning
disabilities, or be low income. She said they received a
federal grant of $745,000 and now have a lodge at Amalga
Harbor with 30 kids in the program. She was concerned what
the model would be with only $9,000, if we're talking about
rehabilitation and education, etc. She said $9,000 could
put another 10 kids into the SAGA program.
Number 177
RANDALL HINES, Youth Correction Specialist, Department of
Health and Social Services, was there to answer questions.
SENATOR SALO asked him to explain the fiscal note which
seemed totally unrealistic. MR. HINES said they view this
as enabling legislation that would allow them to go forth
and develop a model program.
SENATOR SALO said it seemed the title of the bill did not
correctly explain that.
Number 212
SENATOR PHILLIPS mentioned that the Federal Control Act of
1990 authorizes $220 million for programs with "correctional
options."
SENATOR ELLIS asked what the educational component of the
program would cost? MR. HINES said that currently programs
operated by the Department of Health and Social Services
have an educational component in them. They would develop
their model along the same lines. The educational
opportunities in this program would be no different than
what they have now in existing facilities.
SENATOR ELLIS commented that he had toured the school at
McLaughlin Youth Center and it was very inadequate, probably
violated every fire code there was.
SENATOR ELLIS also asked how this related to Commissioner
Rupp's Project Hope. He wanted to be realistic about the
costs. MR. HINES said the whole issue of funding the
operation of one of these camps is not addressed in the
fiscal note, because they don't have a model for it yet. He
said these were youth facilities under the Department of
Health and Social Services, not the Department of
Corrections.
There is an amendment for Section 4 that would allow a city
or non profit corporation to possibly run a detention
facility and he wanted the intent clarified. He recommended
eliminating the juvenile detention facility language.
Number 310
SENATOR LEMAN said he liked the idea of privatization. He
didn't think leaving the language in there would do any
particular disservice.
SENATOR ELLIS was bothered by the broad authority in the
bill. Before he would commit money to a program like that
he would have to know the details about it. He said the
Department has full authority to apply for federal funds to
expand the youthful offender programs and asked why they
hadn't taken the initiative in those areas.
MR. HINES said there had been a number of discretionary
grant programs from the Office of Juvenile Justice and
Delinquency Prevention for which they have applied and been
turned down.
SENATOR ELLIS pointed out that they didn't have a very good
track record in attracting the federal funds they are
depending on for funding this initiative.
Number 357
SENATOR RIEGER asked if their commitment to the work camp
would be following orders of the court or would HESS be
making those decisions. MR. HINES explained under current
regulations, once a child has been adjudicated to the
custody of the department, it's their decision which
facility would be best for the them. Their primary concern
is what's in the best interests of the child. One of the
fiscal restraints they've had is in placing kids outside the
state where the program is best for them.
Number 391
SENATOR PHILLIPS asked the committee to look at page 5,
Section 7 for what a "work camp" means.
SENATOR SALO questioned the validity of the fiscal note.
SENATOR PHILLIPS said when the legislature authorizes them
to set up the program, they will tell them how much money
they can spend.
SENATOR DUNCAN pointed out that point holds true only if the
facility is operated by the state. If it's operated by a
city or nonprofit, it doesn't have to come to the
legislature for approval.
SENATOR ELLIS says it boggles him that they are thinking of
granting so much authority to a department they have had so
many problems with over the years in terms of regulations.
Number 460
SENATOR DUNCAN said they should look at the model before
they authorize the establishment of it. Secondly, if they
are having experts from "outside" visit, they should be
available to talk before the committee.
SENATOR RIEGER said they would hold the bill for further
expert testimony.
Number 488
SENATOR RIEGER announced SB 61 IMPLEMENT ALASKA 2000
RECOMMENDATIONS to be up for consideration.
CLAUDIA DOUGLAS, NEA-AK complimented the efforts of Senator
Rieger and Senator Sharp for looking at some of their
concerns in terms of the evaluation process.
SENATOR DUNCAN asked her if she was proposing that a school
district have the option of adopting or not adopting a
probationary program. She said that was correct. SENATOR
DUNCAN asked if they do adopt it, did it then mean they have
to follow the guidelines that are on page 2 under 1, 2, and
3? She said that was correct. SENATOR DUNCAN then asked if
they adopt that program, after the second year, if the
evaluations aren't acceptable, then they can extend a
teacher to a third year without tenure. SENATOR RIEGER said
that was correct.
SENATOR DUNCAN asked what was the basis for not granting
tenure? He also questioned "the district may terminate the
program at any time" and what happens to a teacher who is in
the middle of the process when the program is terminated.
SENATOR RIEGER referred him to the last three lines of the
first page which reads, "On termination of a program, the
provisions of (a) of this section apply to the probationary
teachers, except that a teacher in a third year of probation
does not acquire tenure rights unless reemployed for the
school year immediately following the three full continuous
school years."
SENATOR DUNCAN asked if he was correct in understanding that
if the program is terminated and an individual is in the
second year, he falls under the present tenure law and if
the individual is in the third year, they could just not
rehire them. SENATOR RIEGER said he thought that was
correct. MS. DOUGLAS agreed.
She said her other concern was with section (c) which says,
"A school district that has a probationary teacher
evaluation program may extend..." She wanted "for cause" to
be inserted which would allow her to support the amendment
in a stronger way.
SENATOR DUNCAN said "for cause" should also be inserted on
the fourth line. MS. DOUGLAS agreed.
Number 564
SENATOR MILLER moved to amend amendment #5. SENATOR ELLIS
objected for a point of information. SENATOR DUNCAN
explained that amendment #5 basically deleted the material
in the bill on the tenure provisions and sets up an
evaluation procedure. This amendment does not evaluate
administrators. His amendment does not have the third year
provision.
TAPE 93-15, SIDE B
Number 577
SENATOR SALO objected and there was discussion on the
phrases "for cause" and "for just cause." SENATOR DUNCAN
said there has to be a reason the school district won't
grant tenure.
SENATOR RIEGER said he was leery of passing legislation that
invites more litigation or that has language in it that
requires an administrative proceeding to interpret.
SENATOR SHARP said it was his intent if tenure wasn't
granted, the only reason would be that there are still
negative points that would not permit them to employ the
teacher at the time.
SENATOR SALO said according to school district people she
has talked to, tenure is not a problem, at all. The part
that's legitimate about this approach is the small number of
people who need to be evaluated longer or more thoroughly.
She suggested dealing with that small number rather than
dealing with everyone. She had a problem with the words
"not ready."
SENATOR DUNCAN said the only reason he could see for not
granting tenure would be because of well documented
evaluations where performance is not acceptable or not up to
standard.
Number 498
SENATOR SALO asked if in Section 10, line 5 the evaluation
referred to third year or first, second, and third. SENATOR
RIEGER said he thought it covered first, second, and third.
Number 477
CARL ROSE, Executive Director, Association of Alaska School
Boards, said they desire to extend the probationary period
up to four years. If you have questionable teachers who
show promise, he thought another year would be very helpful
and would be a positive approach.
SENATOR DUNCAN suggested adding to the evaluation language
sections (e) and (f), the self improvement plan in the other
amendment, and training for evaluators.
MR. ROSE said in their proposal they see some responsibility
associated with the request for an extension. He agreed
there should be something prescribed in terms of what you're
going to provide for this additional year.
Number 395
SENATOR SALO asked they included the option to terminate the
program. SENATOR RIEGER said it seemed to make sense from
what people were saying about leaving room for the program
to improve. This is one approach.
Number 346
SENATOR DUNCAN withdrew amendment #5.
SENATOR DUNCAN then offered amendment #6, although he wasn't
the author.
SENATOR DUNCAN on page 1, Sec. 10, line 3, moved to insert
"based on the evaluation and self improvement program, the
district has determined there is cause to not grant tenure
to the teacher on the basis of the two years of
employment...." after "subsection and if..." and delete the
rest of the sentence.
SENATOR RIEGER objected for the purpose of discussion. He
said he was uneasy with the word "cause" because he didn't
know what it meant. SENATOR DUNCAN said he had an opinion
of what "just cause" means, not "cause." "Just cause" means
the employer must show the employee committed an act which
warrants his discharge. The employer must have a sound
basis, a reasonable ground, for his decision. He does not
have reasonable ground if the assumption on which he makes
his decision is incorrect.
SENATOR SALO agreed with SENATOR DUNCAN that "just cause" is
a higher standard than "cause."
Number 269
SENATOR LEMAN asked what was the process now if someone is
not granted tenure after two years? Does cause have to be
shown? He thought the school district would just not accept
the contract.
SENATOR SALO agreed and said if the bill was written to just
apply to the small number of teachers the district wonders
about, the affect would probably be to prompt resignation or
to be used, in a limited way, as a shaping tool.
Number 220
SENATOR SHARP suggested using Senator Duncan's amendment,
but adding, "and if based on the existence of continuing
unsatisfactory elements in the evaluation and self
improvement programs is not ready to..."
Number 190
MR. ROSE said the issue really comes down to how much of an
opportunity do we allow our staff to be successful.
Number 166
JERRY COVEY, Commissioner of Education, said the Board
established the Tenure Review Committee, because it felt
they wanted the public to have more involvement. The intent
is to add credibility to the process, to bring the public
into the process in a way that builds confidence.
SENATOR DUNCAN said he is not anxious to make any change.
SENATOR SALO said she would like to see a draft amendment
that included Senator Duncan's additions and Senator Sharp's
comments for the next meeting.
TAPE 93-16, SIDE A
Number 001
SENATOR RIEGER adjourned the meeting at 3:05 p.m.
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